Just recently, Tim Binnall interviewed me for his Binnall of America show, as he has often done in the past. But, this episode was a bit different, since it focused on two of my books, rather than just one: The Pyramids and the Pentagon and Final Events.
"Prolific Fortean researcher and great friend of the program, Nick Redfern makes his long overdue return to BoA:Audio for a marathon conversation covering one of his most recent books, The Pyramids and the Pentagon, as well as a previous book, Final Events, which may have profound meaning for the UFO enigma. In the first half, covering Pyramids, we'll discuss stories of a Bible being found in the Roswell crash, CIA interest in Noah's Ark, odd references to Mars anomalies in old literature which may have come from the Voynich manuscript, as well as an overall look at why the government may be looking at ancient mysteries and what they may have found.
"In the latter half, covering Final Events, we'll delve into the bizarre story of a government think tank which studied UFOs and determined that they were demonic in origin. We'll discuss how Nick heard about the story, various aspects of the groups findings, notably their thoughts on Roswell, abductions, and MJ-12, as well as meta analysis on what the 'demonic UFO' theory means for UFO research and how Ufology reacted to Nick's controversial research.
"Full Preview: We kick things off by getting an update from Nick on what he's been up to since his last appearance on BoA:Audio. We get meta and talk about the prolific nature of Nick's research and how it exemplifies the need to examine many facets of the paranormal. We then begin digging in to Nick's latest book, The Pyramids and the Pentagon, and he provides a thumbnail look at the premise behind the research, which is government interest in ancient mysteries. Looking at one of more bizarre tales found in the book, we have Nick extrapolate on the rumors that a Bible was found in the Roswell crash debris. This segues into details about the CIA interest in the Dead Sea Scrolls during 1947 and onward.
"Next, we move on to talk about Noah's Ark and how there is a wealth of documentation showing that the government photographed and investigated the infamous anomaly on Mt. Ararat in Turkey. Nick provides tremendous detail about the tales of Air Force photographs of an object in the ice and subsequent, extensive CIA investigation into the 'Ark Problem,' as they called it. This leads to some discussion about how it is baffling that, in this age of modern satellite technology, we still do not have any definitive answers regarding the Ararat anomaly. He also explains how Ararat is a unique 'paranormal location,' since it is treacherous terrain.
"Following that, we look at the Mars anomalies and how there appears to have been knowledge of these mysteries dating back much farther than the Viking probe photos which brought them to the public consciousness. Nick also illuminates the bizarre 'coincidence' that there are fairly accurate descriptions of Mars' moons in Gulliver's Travels and how it has been suggested that Jonathan Swift actually got the information from the Voynich Manuscript, of all places. Beyond that, Nick details how Jack Kirby's work also contained references to Martian mysteries and how his work, as well as other artists' works, may have been part of an acclimation program put together by the government.
"Nearing the end of our discussion on The Pyramids and the Pentagon, we discuss how the government has repeatedly tapped in to 'New Age' researchers for insights on ancient mysteries and ponder what that may indicate about their overall knowledge about the enigmas. This leads to Nick speculating that, rather than having the 'best and brightest' working on these mysteries as well as things like the UFO phenomenon, the government may be using more maverick scientists who are more malleable and controllable. Going in a different direction from there, we talk about the Navy has a surprisingly under reported role in examining many mysteries. This leads to Nick sharing a wild story which connects the pyramids, the Navy, and acoustic levitation.
"In the second half of the conversation, we discuss, at length, Nick's 2010 book Final Events, which details an alleged government group that investigated UFOs and determined that they were actually demonic. We begin by hearing how Nick came upon the story via a former MUFON state director who was made privy to this secret group, known as the Collins Elite. He also revisits the shadowy nature by which he learned more about the group, including conversations with former members of the organization.
"This leads to us talking about the 'demonic UFO' theory and how the story of the Collins Elite gives greater credence to the hypothesis. That said, we also talk about how the 'demonic' aspect may be too literal an interpretation for a malignant force from another dimension or realm. The conversation segues into the importance of Jack Parsons to both NASA and JPL as well as the occult and arcane history of the modern paranormal mythos. Nick talks about how there is an odd paranormal lineage from Alistair Crowley to Parsons to Ray Palmer to Kenneth Arnold.
"In light of the hypothesis put forward by the Collins Elite, we then ponder, if we are being invaded by demonic forces, why there appear to be no mention of any counterbalancing force of good against them. Our conversation then turns towards Roswell 'crash,' which the Collins Elite believed was the result of alchemical trickery designed to fool humans. Attempting to get a handle on the various government groups investigating the UFO phenomenon, we then ponder where the Collins Elite fits in relation to an MJ-12 type group. This leads to us talking about another facet of the Collins Elite's conclusions, which was that the 'visitors' were interested in human souls.
"We then look at MILABs and how the Collins Elite investigated the phenomenon and concluded that they were also a part of the demonic illusion. Since the book came out a couple of years ago, we find out if Nick has any general update on the Collins Elite research. We also find out how the UFO community reacted to Nick research presented in Final Events, including how some Ufologists told Nick that he shouldn't have written the book. We then muse about the irony that the government, if they are really investigating the demonic aspect of UFOs, may have a more open mind about the phenomenon than the UFO research community.
"Furthering our journey into the troubling theories of the Collins Elite, we look at their 'end game' scenario which involved turning America into a purely Christian nation created via an staged 'second coming.' While that may sound insane, Nick details a revealed CIA plans to stage just such a scenario over Cuba in the 1960's and also reflects on how the warfare of the last 10 years has been suspiciously built along religious lines. In light of the alleged global cover up of the UFO phenomenon, we ponder whether the Russians or British governments have examined the demonic UFO theory. Our conversation then gets a bit meta as we talk about Nick's presentation of the Collins Elite story and how he fully acknowledges that it could be disinformation.
"Looking at the world of the paranormal, as a whole, we then discuss the perceived stasis which seems to have fallen over the entire genre in the last decade or so, despite the saturation of paranormal shows. We also reflect on how the hype for 2012 seems to have subsided, ironically, in 2012. We also return to the meta realm and learn how Nick decides on which topic to examine for his future books. Wrapping up the conversation, we find out what's next for Nick Redfern through 2012 as well as into 2013, including new cryptozoological books and a fresh look at the infamous Men in Black. "